248 audio only
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[00:00:00] Welcome back to the What's Your 1 More Podcast. I'm your host, Quinton Harris. You dialed in for episode 248. We got an [00:00:05] exciting one for you because we've been talking for some time about two years, about trigger leads. [00:00:10] We've talked about the bill, we've talked about it getting passed. We've talked about the potential of it passing through [00:00:15] both House and Senate, and finally the time has come.
So trigger leads about to be [00:00:20] gone. What are they and more at this episode of, what's your one more.
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All right, so welcome back to the show, [00:00:30] man. I gotta tell you this environment that we're in right now, you know, if you're doing mortgage [00:00:35] lending, if you're a consumer, if you're a real estate agent, this elusive ideology of [00:00:40] trigger leads has been around for about two decades plus right now, and it's been a challenge but.
I'm gonna [00:00:45] talk a little bit about what they are. But finally, we've gone through the house and it's onto the Senate with a bill [00:00:50] that has advanced and the industry anticipates a new rule soon. New rule being, Hey, we're gonna get rid of these [00:00:55] things. because they're not great. What are they like?
It's funny how when you apply for a mortgage loan, right? [00:01:00] I've done several episodes on this, by the way. And I was looking it up and I'm like, this is my third episode on triggers that [00:01:05] we've been talking about for two years. 'cause we thought they were gonna get wiped off the planet two years ago. They didn't.
and now we're back [00:01:10] in another bill, a separate bill, and it looks like that it's gonna pass through this time. But it's funny how when you [00:01:15] apply for a mortgage loan, let's say you apply with lender A and you take an application [00:01:20] and your anticipation is, Hey, I'm gonna do business with lender A. I may go shop lender B, I may shop [00:01:25] lender C, but that's up to me the consumer.
Well, what happens is when you do that [00:01:30] application now out of the blue, you're getting multiple phone calls. I was speaking with a consumer [00:01:35] yesterday who got 72 phone calls after having their credit pulled by [00:01:40] a mortgage lender. 72. Like between text messages, between phone calls, [00:01:45] robodialing is what I call it.
'cause it's clearly a dialer doing it. It's insane. And it [00:01:50] literally is like how from a consumer standpoint, they're like, what the hell is going on? Why do I have [00:01:55] so many phone calls coming? And it's crazy to think like, where's my information going? How is that [00:02:00] happening? Well, these are called trigger leads.
And this is really important because this practice started back [00:02:05] in 2005 under the Fair Credit Reporting Act. So what inter, what is a trigger lead? Well, [00:02:10] here's what happens. They take place when a consumer applies for a mortgage loan and [00:02:15] when they do the credit companies identify that as a mortgage credit pool.
We've talked about this in several [00:02:20] episodes. So the credit vendors experience TransUnion, Equifax, they identify the credit that you're having pulled by [00:02:25] your mortgage lender was an M1 credit pool, meaning mortgage, credit pool. And upon doing [00:02:30] that, the inquiry is then sold by the repositories. [00:02:35] think about what I'm saying here, sold by the repositories to other creditors [00:02:40] that can offer you a firm offer of credit.
Now, I want you to think about what I just said there. [00:02:45] They're selling without your permission to another lender [00:02:50] so they can offer you a firm offer of credit. The ideology behind this was [00:02:55] that consumers do a poor job of shopping for services. Think about that [00:03:00] statement. That's how this was created.
That's how this, that's how this was actually rolled out. Hey, you do a bad job of shopping. Not that you [00:03:05] want to, but you do a bad job of it. So we're gonna do the shopping for you in the background with other lenders [00:03:10] so that they can approach you with a firm offer of credit. This is where we as an industry, we [00:03:15] should have called BS on this to begin with because that's not what happened.
Like many things that are [00:03:20] passed, they are completely, how can I say it, manipulated and used to the benefit of the [00:03:25] person who's taken advantage of it. And in this case it would be another creditor. So ideally what was was supposed to [00:03:30] happen is that if I applied for a mortgage loan to my benefit, the [00:03:35] repositories would sell that pennies on the dollar by the way they would sell.
My name, my [00:03:40] contact information, and the fact that I just applied for a mortgage because they identified my credit was pulled in the last [00:03:45] 24 to seven two hours. And then the new creditor is supposed to scrub my data, scrub. [00:03:50] Meaning am I on the do not call list? have I activated some sort of protection to my credit?
[00:03:55] And don't contact that person, but for everyone else, contact them. And what has happened [00:04:00] is there's no firm offer of credit being delivered. It's a scam. You're [00:04:05] being inundated and flooded by other mortgage lenders who are basically looking to [00:04:10] leach off of the marketing dollars and expenses of the original company that worked [00:04:15] hard and spent diligent money to get you to apply with them.
Think about that for a minute. Like could you [00:04:20] imagine walking into, I think I use this analogy all the time, but walking into Apple and looking at an iPhone, [00:04:25] and as you do it, you're saying, yeah, I wanna finance that iPhone. 'cause we know they do that over a certain amount of [00:04:30] months and the minute they pull your credit.
You've got Microsoft, [00:04:35] Android, all these other phone vendors blowing you up trying to sell you a phone because they know you just [00:04:40] inquired about an iPhone. Like, could you imagine that happening? It doesn't work like that because it shouldn't [00:04:45] work like that. And for whatever reason, we've made this okay in the mortgage industry for some time, and [00:04:50] now the time has come for this nonsense to stop and I'm very excited.
We are almost at the finish line. [00:04:55] So now that we know a little bit about triggers and we know that. They're not being used for what they were intended for. They are [00:05:00] being used for other mortgage companies to limit their expense, buy these leads, pennies on the [00:05:05] dollars, and call customers and confuse them by offering them different [00:05:10] deals than what they're currently getting that aren't necessarily better.
In some cases, I've had consumers [00:05:15] tell me that the company that bought the trigger lead actually calls and [00:05:20] pretends to be the current lender, just to get you to have conversations with them, just to get [00:05:25] you, another offer to try to beat what the current lender's doing. Like it is a very scam, [00:05:30] manipulated and very just deceptive practice.
It's it. It's unbelievable, and I [00:05:35] can't believe it took this long for it to get to the forefront 20 plus years later. But the House Financial [00:05:40] Service Committee has passed the Home Buyer's Privacy Protection Act on Tuesday the 10th. finally are tax [00:05:45] dollars doing some good work for the consumers, right?
We're finally seeing some improvement. And so, you know, this federal [00:05:50] bill seeks to eliminate the abuse of trigger leads. And that's what it is. It's a, it's an abusive [00:05:55] policy, and an abusive use of credit consumers information, and they took a major step forward [00:06:00] last week. I can't. Can't say enough good things about advancing that through the US House of Representatives [00:06:05] and basically reigniting hopes across the country that this darn thing's gonna get passed and will [00:06:10] eliminate this practice.
Now as a mortgage lender, I. Being in the business for over 23 years and [00:06:15] talking to other mortgage lenders. This is like one of the biggest fallacies in the industry because [00:06:20] when we're talking to consumers, we actually have to educate the consumer, not only about the home buying process, [00:06:25] but we've actually gotta discuss with them that, hey, once I pull your credit, look out, like you're [00:06:30] going to get blown up in multiple ways from other lenders pretending to be me.[00:06:35]
Citing they can beat the offer that I'm giving you when they don't even know the offer that we're talking about. They [00:06:40] don't know your down payment. They don't know what you're trying to refinance for. I mean, they don't know anything but they, they claim they can [00:06:45] beat it. Like don't fall into that fly trap because it's complete nonsense.
And all they're doing [00:06:50] is literally casting a net, hoping to get people to fall into that trap. So we have to go down this [00:06:55] whole path. Talk about making an uneasy conversation for a first time home buyer. Oh, hey, I know this [00:07:00] process of getting this home is uneasy. And I know you're worried about getting, you know, the home loan approved and you [00:07:05] know, being judged during the process, but you're also going to get confused by these other people calling, pretending they can do more, [00:07:10] pretending to be me.
Like, we don't need that nonsense in the industry. Get that out of here. So hopefully the Senate [00:07:15] passes this rather quickly and we get it to the president's desk to sign it and we're on our way. But you know, there's a couple [00:07:20] things that have to happen for that. But curbing this controversial practice is extremely [00:07:25] important of abusive triggers.
And again, it's been a deceptive practice for over 20 years. And you know, when we look at a couple [00:07:30] things, like there's some newfound momentum with this and I often joke that I don't think it's newfound [00:07:35] momentum. I think that someone in the house or someone with a lot of power got triggered and they're pissed [00:07:40] off about this and they're like, this can't happen.
That's usually how this stuff happens. Like it has to get to the forefront of someone that [00:07:45] actually. It lands on their desk because someone of power said, Hey listen, this crap has to [00:07:50] stop. Right? It wasn't because the house woke up one day and all the constituents were writing letters, like literally someone [00:07:55] in the seat at the house or someone close to the seat at the house that has influence got triggered [00:08:00] and was like, Hey, what's this nonsense and how is this even legal?
All right. There it is. Like red [00:08:05] light goes off and it's like, oh Dean, we gotta get this to stop. That's typically what happened here, right? This isn't them just [00:08:10] waking up and saying, let's go do a good deed today, because, I don't believe that's what's happened here. But I will say [00:08:15] between the backing of the National Association of Mortgage Brokers, this, national Association of Mortgage [00:08:20] Bankers, like there is a lot of good things and momentum going on here and support in the industry, and it's one of the [00:08:25] first time I've seen the entire industry come together where you're a mortgage broker, you're an independent mortgage banker, [00:08:30] you're a bank.
Everyone is coming together saying, Hey. This has to stop. And I think that's something [00:08:35] that I've never seen in 23 years where we'll all have a united front on a policy that needs to take [00:08:40] place. That impacts all of us. Yeah. We all want lower rates. I get we could go there, but I'm saying like as far as this, it's a [00:08:45] united front.
It's great to see. It's great to see all the backing and the people stepping in saying, Hey, listen, what do [00:08:50] we gotta do to make this right? And there seems to be zero opposition in this, you know. The only [00:08:55] opposition that I found on this as I read about it, was one of the opponents of the bill is re is a [00:09:00] representative young Kim, Democrat outta California.
And, her thought is that, she fills this [00:09:05] elimination of triggers work against the consumer because a large number of them don't shop for mortgage [00:09:10] offers like. Really think about that for a minute. She believes eliminating this [00:09:15] will actually hurt the consumer because they don't shop for mortgage offers.
I tell you what, we should go [00:09:20] sign Young Kim up right now for all triggers, right? I think this should be applied. Let's do this. Let's put it to the test. [00:09:25] Like if I had the ability to sign her up right now for triggers, I guarantee you the next statement from her would be, [00:09:30] we need to eliminate triggers because this is not okay, and the sharing of information at the manner in which it was [00:09:35] taken is not okay.
There's no way in hell that this person has ever experienced. [00:09:40] That type of torment that happens during 72 robo dials throughout the day. [00:09:45] I mean, she's probably got an assistant answers her phone, but that's okay. Regardless, I think if you could put [00:09:50] that person in a position to be triggered, and I think the actual demeanor will change.
Consumers can shop, [00:09:55] all they gotta do is get on this wonderful device they have at their pocket. I mean, oh my God, if we only had a device where you [00:10:00] could Google, how do I shop for a mortgage? Or how do I do this? If you could only type it in and get the answer like [00:10:05] that is the dumbest statement I've ever heard in my life.
Probably sponsored by, you know. Buyers of triggers are [00:10:10] more importantly credit vendors. To put a silly statement out there, you can tell that person is completely outta touch [00:10:15] and, love to have her on the show. We'll debate it out. I bet I'd win. So, hey, the Home Buyer's Protection Act directly [00:10:20] addresses these needs that need to be taken care of.
And I can tell you this, that the House Committee also adopted an [00:10:25] amendment that basically directs the consumer, the Comp Comptroller General, to basically say, Hey, [00:10:30] listen. Let's go do a 12 month study on this to find out, are these text messages being [00:10:35] delivered? Are they impactful or not impactful by triggers, right?
So here's an idea. [00:10:40] I can sum that up in 12 minutes. I don't need you to do 12 months, and I can save taxpayers millions of dollars. [00:10:45] It is not good. Like you do not need to be sending text messages about someone's mortgages and what they [00:10:50] qualify for over a text message. We have laws in place with truth and lending that prevent, [00:10:55] illicit practice of disclosing interest rates improperly.
You wanna see the till violations take place. And the [00:11:00] countless acts of that. Yeah, go ahead, let's go. Let's study text messages and see how that works. Terrible idea. Terrible. [00:11:05] Don't do that. Don't need to spend the money on it. It's terrible. So let's get thisthrough the house.
Let's get it to the Senate. Let's [00:11:10] get this bill passed and be on our way and get rid of the deceptive practices that have been in our industry for over the 20 [00:11:15] years that are directly harming the consumer. And the consumer can shop whenever they want to. They have a device that does everything [00:11:20] for 'em at the palm of their hands.
Like let's get rid of that notion that consumers don't know how to shop. 'cause Lord knows, [00:11:25] look at consumer spending, they shop just fine. I don't have to worry about that. But until this bill has passed, how do you [00:11:30] prevent these practices from happening in our YouTube channel at, what's your One more with the number one.
That's it. [00:11:35] What's your One more with number one, we're going to put the do not call registry on there and we're gonna put the prescreen [00:11:40] optout link. Now what is Prescreen? Optout Prescreen Optout. Get you out of those firm [00:11:45] offer of credits that's supposed to be delivered. So you put that in there. You can do it for five years, or you can do it for [00:11:50] three years or one year.
You're gonna put your information on this page and you're going to opt out. That will take effect [00:11:55] about 30 days from when you do it, and then you should stop receiving this nonsense next time you have your [00:12:00] credit pulled or even prior to having your credit pool because some of your services that you currently have [00:12:05] from credit cards to your current mortgage provider.
They send you these firm offers as well. [00:12:10] So they're read the fine print. It'll take you out of those as well, not just trigger lead campaigns. So [00:12:15] as we wrap up the show, speaking about the economy there in consumer spending, something I thought was interesting, [00:12:20] I. I had actually never seen this before, but we all know what a Crayola crayon is, right?
If you've had [00:12:25] kids, or remember when you were a kid, Crayola crowns, they're in like boxes of like 64 to [00:12:30] 128 or even a pack of 24, right? But when it was originally created, there was eight colors [00:12:35] and what happens is past those eight colors, there's another development all the way down to all these [00:12:40] different shades of different things.
So this is often. Often referred to as a metaphor [00:12:45] of economic progress. And so I got a chart in our YouTube channel here, and when I gave my producer, [00:12:50] he was like, what? What are these sound waves you're giving me here? But when you take a look at it here at our YouTube channel on there, [00:12:55] what's your one more.
The original eight colors show you in 1903, where they started, and [00:13:00] then how the colors expanded all the way through 2020. And what you'll find out is that people just wanted some, you [00:13:05] know, or a different shade of orange, different shade of yellow, blue, et cetera. You get the point. And so the company responded [00:13:10] and the process continued to evolve, and now we have so many more choices and the Crayola crown.
You know, I [00:13:15] guess you could say catalog. Well, the same happens in technology, and that's what we're seeing happening right [00:13:20] now with ai. That's what we're seeing happen with virtual ar. We're seeing this, is that how the living standards [00:13:25] improve and the demand for more becomes greater. You want more than the original eight colors, and in this case, [00:13:30] you want different shades of those colors.
So more demand, more choices have been created, more options for. You [00:13:35] know, the consumer of what you could imagine. And it's interesting you look at this chart, how it's literally a metaphor of the [00:13:40] economy and technology and what's happening in our country and in our world right now. So guys, if you like what you're hearing, please share this [00:13:45] podcast.
check us out at Apple, Spotify, and on YouTube. love the comments, love what you [00:13:50] guys are putting on there and all the feedback. Again, hey, if you've been in the situation as a consumer and you've been [00:13:55] triggered before, you have a family member that's applying for a loan or you have a friend and they've gone through this process, have 'em go to that optout [00:14:00] pre-screen until this bill is passed.
Hopefully gets passed in the next 30 days, but we've said that over two years now. We thought it was gonna make it through there. [00:14:05] However, this is one step closer to the finish line and hopefully we can cross it, raise our hands and cheer that this [00:14:10] darn nonsense is over with guys, till the next episode, we'll see you at what's your, one more.
Thanks for tuning in. [00:14:15] [00:14:20] [00:14:25] [00:14:30]
